Posts by Island Man

22

The real reason the Watchtower Magazine is studied

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower study is not real bible study.

it is a study to introduce wtbts beliefs,doctrines, and practices.

just think for a moment!

Island Man

Yes, it is so amazing that the supposed ALMIGHTY CREATOR of the UNIVERSE inspired a book that is supposedly the ONLY way to gain a relationship with him and survive and gain eternal life, yet that same book is so easily misunderstood by billions of people worldwide...
AND, he then needs a select group of men to explain how to understand this same book... A group of men who have made mistakes in deep doctrines, and errors in explaining what "God's truth" is so many times...
It really does show that this ALMIGHTY CREATOR must revel in making it difficult for people to draw close to him

And all of this begs the question: Why even go through the trouble of divinely inspiring the Bible to ensure its accuracy and infallibility if worshipers are supposedly duty bound by divine decree to rely on the imperfect interpretations of men? The infallibility of the Bible is rendered of no use because the imperfect men will inevitably misinterpret it. It makes no sense!

53

Which is better minimum wage or minimum income?

by hoser in

jw
friends

we were having this discussion in the office the other day and we came to the conclusion minimum wage is better because it still adds to the economy vs minimum income which someone could potentially stay at home and do nothing and still get paid without producing a thing for the greater economy.. thoughts?.

Island Man

I think minimum income is better. Minimum income doesn't have to be something that allows you to live comfortably. It can just be something that ensures you can have basic shelter, minimum required food, clothing, healthcare, etc. Basically, people should be living in poverty but without starving.

This way, there is still the motivation to work because few would choose to live in poverty if they can help it, but at the same time you look after those that are out of work for some reason, until they find work.

With minimum wage, you have no power to progress financially if you're in a job paying minimum wage and you can't get another higher paying job. And what happens if you lose that job? You have no income! So minimum wage can be like slavery. But minimum income is a basic protection for all that will give employees the freedom change employment. It better equalizes the power play between employee and employer so that neither has too much undue power over the other.

In fact, I don't think it should be a case of either or. It should be a case of both! You have minimum income to allow the unemployed to survive uncomfortably without starving and without taking away the motivation to find employment. And in addition you stipulate a minimum wage to ensure employees are treated fairly. So basically you would have a minimum income for everyone and working people get at least a minimum wage added to that. No working person would be living in true poverty. Only the unemployed would be poor but at least they won't starve.

340

Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

Island Man

"When it is the only possibility that remains."

How would one determine that it is the ONLY possibility? Haven't you ever heard of unknown unknowns? The set of known unknowns is not the ultimate boundary of possibility. You might falsely think it's the only possibility simply because you don't know what it is you don't know. That's why it is wise to base a claim on positive evidence rather than a lack of imagination. There are things that are completely outside our ability to imagine simply because we have never experienced anything remotely like it in our lives. For example, to a 1 year old child there are tiny people living inside the television. There are too many unknown unknowns for that infant to think of any other possibility. The mistake underpinning the creationists argument from ignorance and argument from incredulity reasoning is subconsciously thinking that the truth about reality has to be delineated by their own limited imaginations.

8

Fade..... or this?

by Giordano in

there are four ways to leave the 'truth'...... alive............you can be disfellowshiped...... then shunned, you can formally disassociate yourself and be shunned........ you can fade.

the first two words belong to the society, fade on the other hand is defined as 'to gradually grow faint and disappear.

' 'walking away' has it's own negative connotation about one's commitments and relationships.. i think some folks feel uncomfortable with these words.

Island Man

You forgot to mention the 4th way of leaving the 'Truth': Death.

31

The hypocrisy of today's Watchtower

by UnshackleTheChains in

i don't really need to explain anything really.

all i can say is that i was gob smacked at the sheer audaciousness of the entire study article.

i'm still speechless.

Island Man

What I found interesting was the part where they pointed to the pharisaic practice of not forgiving a sinner after 3 offenses. They cited this as an example of the unmerciful nature of the pharisees. Yet they were completely oblivious to the fact that the NT uses the same rule for those that teach different doctrine. The ignorant fools were unwittingly condemning the NT!

25

Talked Higher Education with Mrs. OTWO

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

so i shared a facebook video from newsbroke with my wife.

you many agree or disagree with the points made in the video.

please, don't make this about that.

Island Man

"She went back into JW mode and said how so much of higher learning does focus on unrealistic hopes of humans figuring things out."

Maybe you can point out how much we have figured out and how much better life is today as a result. Ask her what life would be like today without antibiotics, vaccination and other advances if everyone had the JW mindset of not focusing on trying to solve problems and just leaving it all up to God's kingdom to solve it in the future. History shows that it is not unrealistic to think that we can solve problems because we have found solutions. Ask her if she would prefer to live in a world where no one is pursing higher education or doing any research in the hope of finding solutions. There would be no effective doctors or surgeons. There would be lots of preventable deaths from things like appendicitis, dental abscess, etc. And why does she go to the doctor when she's sick? Shouldn't she just wait on the kingdom to cure her illness instead of going to worldly doctors who studied at medical universities where they pursue the unrealistic hope of figuring things out?

60

Jesus fulfilling old testament prophecies like his legs not being broken

by Isambard Crater in

what are everyone's thoughts on this, how his legs weren't broken, he was pierced with a spear and he wore a thorny crown?.

i'm pimo and very much not wanting to believe, but like the daniel statue prophecies, these ones about jesus stick in my mind and give me "hmmm, maybe" moments..

Island Man

Well I would say that before you even question how it is that Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy, you should question how it is you can be so certain that the NT accounts of his life are true and accurate. I mean, how do you know for sure that NT writers didn't just write fictional narratives to match up with OT prophecies in a bid to give legitimacy to the idea that their cult leader is the messiah? You do realize that the NT writers had access to and knowledge of the OT, right? How hard do you think it would have been to create fictional narratives that portray their leader as fulfilling OT prophecy?

13

Subliminal Messages

by Lost in the fog in

i was watching a fascinating ted-ex video on hypnosis and hypnotism with a friend.

my friend wondered if the jws new music might have a hypnotic suggestion buried somewhere in it which gets everyone in attendance to listen and absorb stuff that is totally irrational for the entire program.

ending with a second subliminal message in the final song along the lines of "you will snap out of this state when you next hear the word amen.

Island Man

The whole subliminal thing is nowhere near as influential as most paranoists think it to be. Hypnotism isn't even half as potent as the popular media makes it out to be.

19

Women must not instruct men, even by singing a theocratic song.

by Ultimate Axiom in

i did a quick search and this doesn’t appear to have been commented on here, but if it has been, i apologise in advance for starting an unnecessary thread.. regarding a change to a song title, the study article on page 7 paragraph 17 of november 2017 watchtower explained, “the change of the title “guard your heart” to “we guard our hearts” was most considerate.

in the audience at our meetings, assemblies, and conventions are many new ones, interested ones, young ones, and sisters who by singing the words would be put in the awkward position of telling others what to do.

so the title and the lyrics were modified.”.

Island Man

But Watchtower has actually watered down the sexism of the Bible, somewhat.

The Bible says a woman should not teach. Watchtower allows women to teach with a head covering. The Bible does not say a woman can teach with a head covering. The Bible says a woman can pray or prophesy with a head covering. JW women do not pray with head coverings on. JWs will say this text refers to leading in prayer. But JW men refuse to pray with a hat on even when they're just silently listening to the public prayer from the audience. If it's wrong for a man to listen to a prayer with a head covering then it should also be wrong for a woman to listen to the prayer without a head covering.

Watchtower has twisted the plain words: "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over man" and "every woman that prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head" to mean: "women should not carry out the duties normally assigned to a man except in such extraordinary circumstances where no baptized man in good standing is present, and then they must do so with a head covering." This is not what the Bible says. The bible only says women are not to teach or exercise authority, period. And women must wear head coverings when praying or prophesying.

19

Women must not instruct men, even by singing a theocratic song.

by Ultimate Axiom in

i did a quick search and this doesn’t appear to have been commented on here, but if it has been, i apologise in advance for starting an unnecessary thread.. regarding a change to a song title, the study article on page 7 paragraph 17 of november 2017 watchtower explained, “the change of the title “guard your heart” to “we guard our hearts” was most considerate.

in the audience at our meetings, assemblies, and conventions are many new ones, interested ones, young ones, and sisters who by singing the words would be put in the awkward position of telling others what to do.

so the title and the lyrics were modified.”.

Island Man

But there's a stark contradiction here: Women are allowed to preach to men in the house to house ministry. So it's not just sexism. It's bigoted sexism. It's ok for JW women to instruct non-JW men in the ministry because worldly men are somehow inferior. Baptized JW men are superior. Us vs them and sexism rolled into one.